Transformers Mosaic: "Youthful Ignorance"

Cool premise for a short story. I don't think Optimus would call Bumblebee a "true autobot" just for killing a 'con. He'd be the sort that would reassure him about his contributions without having to kill someone though. Good work.

Well done on all fronts*; this was good.

*Accurate dialogue, panel design, use of toys, Ark background, etc.

uranimusprime wrote:Cool premise for a short story. I don't think Optimus would call Bumblebee a "true autobot" just for killing a 'con. He'd be the sort that would reassure him about his contributions without having to kill someone though. Good work.

That seems to be the most common criticism. On the one hand, maybe I did overlook that small fact. However, Prime is a soldier, and I was portraying him as a "General" of sorts, and like everyone else in the piece, maybe has "dehumanized" their enemy over time.

Or, maybe Bee's grief is misconstrueing Prime's words.

Duke of Luns wrote:

uranimusprime wrote:Cool premise for a short story. I don't think Optimus would call Bumblebee a "true autobot" just for killing a 'con. He'd be the sort that would reassure him about his contributions without having to kill someone though. Good work.

That seems to be the most common criticism. On the one hand, maybe I did overlook that small fact. However, Prime is a soldier, and I was portraying him as a "General" of sorts, and like everyone else in the piece, maybe has "dehumanized" their enemy over time.

Well, the G1 Prime or most of the bots would never agree on killing, Shattered Prime or the Movie-verse Prime would...

Still, the artwork is good, but this feels like a Shattered Glass story.

Nice job Luns. I enjoyed it a lot!

Absolutely wonderful Mosaic. One of my faves for sure.

Nice mosaic! I love the art and the way you used the figures to portray the story. Story is great also. I like the fact that Optimus acts more like a general than his G1 self. It is war after all. Nice piece.

You really have to feel sorry for Bumblebee, hard to see such a character like him having thoughts of guilt and selfloathing.

But well written mosaic and also great use of toys for the art.

I dont think prime would say that in this context. I never realized how small BB was compared to Prime. I knew he was small but damn hes small.

yet another crappy mosaic... am I the only one who really hates these things or am I just seriously that crazy? All they ever really seem to be is some poorly written fan-wank, and I have yet to see one that I actually like.

First off, to one of the first posters saying that the writing is accurate.... yeah its accurate if we were talking about the shattered glass universe, but none of the autobots in my mind with the exception of a few like Ironhide ever glorified killing the 'cons. Beating them by stopping them from doing further harm to the planet and other living things was glorified, even beating the pulp out of them, but killing?

Do you all forget this was a children's cartoon and not some poorly written science fiction that glorifies robots killing eachother? The autobots were never blood thirsty soldiers, and from the depiction of this, every autobot in this story, ESPECIALLY PRIME, are waaaaaay out of character. Absolutely trash writing whoever came up with the dialogue. Very good message in regards with Bumblebee's morality, and the deeper meaning behind the whole segment, but thats all defiled by the terrible dialogue and out of character personifactions of Jazz, Prime, and the others.

Flame me if you want, but I just can't stand these things... and I've tried to like them but simply can't. Maybe theres something wrong with me, or maybe its just that I can't stand 99.9999999% of fanfiction for anything.

Head Shot wrote:yet another crappy mosaic... am I the only one who really hates these things or am I just seriously that crazy? All they ever really seem to be is some poorly written fan-wank, and I have yet to see one that I actually like.

First off, to one of the first posters saying that the writing is accurate.... yeah its accurate if we were talking about the shattered glass universe, but none of the autobots in my mind with the exception of a few like Ironhide ever glorified killing the 'cons. Beating them by stopping them from doing further harm to the planet and other living things was glorified, even beating the pulp out of them, but killing?

Do you all forget this was a children's cartoon and not some poorly written science fiction that glorifies robots killing eachother? The autobots were never blood thirsty soldiers, and from the depiction of this, every autobot in this story, ESPECIALLY PRIME, are waaaaaay out of character. Absolutely trash writing whoever came up with the dialogue. Very good message in regards with Bumblebee's morality, and the deeper meaning behind the whole segment, but thats all defiled by the terrible dialogue and out of character personifactions of Jazz, Prime, and the others.

Flame me if you want, but I just can't stand these things... and I've tried to like them but simply can't. Maybe theres something wrong with me, or maybe its just that I can't stand 99.9999999% of fanfiction for anything.

No I'm not going to flame you, you are entitled to your opinion. But what was the purpose of your post? You took something that someone worked hard on and lumped in all the others for that matter and really just spit on them. "Another crappy mosaic" is really what I'm talking about, I've seen my share of bad ones but decline to comment. You know that old saying, if you can't say something nice... Not everyone is a prize winning author.

thats geneis real pictures of tfs tured into a comic pure genies

Mega Zarak wrote:

Head Shot wrote:yet another crappy mosaic... am I the only one who really hates these things or am I just seriously that crazy? All they ever really seem to be is some poorly written fan-wank, and I have yet to see one that I actually like.

First off, to one of the first posters saying that the writing is accurate.... yeah its accurate if we were talking about the shattered glass universe, but none of the autobots in my mind with the exception of a few like Ironhide ever glorified killing the 'cons. Beating them by stopping them from doing further harm to the planet and other living things was glorified, even beating the pulp out of them, but killing?

Do you all forget this was a children's cartoon and not some poorly written science fiction that glorifies robots killing eachother? The autobots were never blood thirsty soldiers, and from the depiction of this, every autobot in this story, ESPECIALLY PRIME, are waaaaaay out of character. Absolutely trash writing whoever came up with the dialogue. Very good message in regards with Bumblebee's morality, and the deeper meaning behind the whole segment, but thats all defiled by the terrible dialogue and out of character personifactions of Jazz, Prime, and the others.

Flame me if you want, but I just can't stand these things... and I've tried to like them but simply can't. Maybe theres something wrong with me, or maybe its just that I can't stand 99.9999999% of fanfiction for anything.

No I'm not going to flame you, you are entitled to your opinion. But what was the purpose of your post? You took something that someone worked hard on and lumped in all the others for that matter and really just spit on them. "Another crappy mosaic" is really what I'm talking about, I've seen my share of bad ones but decline to comment. You know that old saying, if you can't say something nice... Not everyone is a prize winning author.

seconed on that man

I like the use of photos. It's a good look.
I do have to disagree with the characterisation though, especially Prime.
Like plenty of others before me have said, killing cons has never been the goal for the Autobots.
However, if Bumblebee had killed Starscream by accident I can imagine some of the troops being quite pleased and impressed.
I can agree with Bumblebee's side of the story.

Before we begin, you're sadly entitled to your opinion, and even to express it. But I'm going to rip it to shreds because you don't seem to have put any thought into it.

Head Shot wrote:yet another crappy mosaic... am I the only one who really hates these things or am I just seriously that crazy? All they ever really seem to be is some poorly written fan-wank, and I have yet to see one that I actually like.

Well, sucks to be you. I can think of several so good that I've saved them to my hard drive so I can enjoy them again and again. Poorly-written? Let's see how you back that up.

First off, to one of the first posters saying that the writing is accurate.... yeah its accurate if we were talking about the shattered glass universe, but none of the autobots in my mind with the exception of a few like Ironhide ever glorified killing the 'cons. Beating them by stopping them from doing further harm to the planet and other living things was glorified, even beating the pulp out of them, but killing?

First of all, where do you see anyone praising BB for killing? They're complimenting him on a job well done. I doubt very much that the job BB was sent to do was killing what looks like Skywarp. Looks to me more like BB did his job and had to kill someone in the process.

Second, are you at all familiar with the characters? Let's look at who is complimenting him. Jazz: according to his profile, he "takes most dangerous missions," and he's a special ops agent. Doesn't sound like someone who'd shy away from killing.

Sunstreaker "is a very calm, competent, and ruthless war machine." Yeah, I'll bet he cries himself to sleep every time he has to kill a 'Con.

Sideswipe "relishes a fight to the finish with an opponent. Uses underhanded tactics when absolutely necessary." Why, this just doesn't seem to be supporting your point at all, does it? It's... it's almost like you were talking out of your rear end!

Do you all forget this was a children's cartoon and not some poorly written science fiction that glorifies robots killing eachother?

No. It's a series of toy robots that, over the years has spawned several cartoon shows, movies and comic books. And in every single one of them, characters have got killed. "Glorifies"? Did you actually read this? The whole frickin' point is about how terrible it is to kill someone, even an enemy! Jeez, people like you are the reason crap fiction gets made. Why bother putting some effort in when some numpty will come along, not pay attention then miss the point and blame the writer?

The autobots were never blood thirsty soldiers, and from the depiction of this, every autobot in this story, ESPECIALLY PRIME, are waaaaaay out of character.

Already covered this. You don't know those characters well. And, of course, I'll ask you to show me where Prime is saying "Way to go on slaughtering the enemy."

Absolutely trash writing whoever came up with the dialogue. Very good message in regards with Bumblebee's morality, and the deeper meaning behind the whole segment, but thats all defiled by the terrible dialogue and out of character personifactions of Jazz, Prime, and the others.

Again, try paying attention to what you're reading. Or just go back to watching the Matrix sequels.

Flame me if you want, but I just can't stand these things... and I've tried to like them but simply can't. Maybe theres something wrong with me, or maybe its just that I can't stand 99.9999999% of fanfiction for anything.

Yes, there's something wrong with you. You don't pay attention to what you're reading and you don't know as much as you think you do about Transformers.

So, what do I think? I like it. The characters are in character, which is something a lot of TF fanfic writers have trouble with.

The effect is scratchy but I like it. I'd like more of this type of Mosaic utilizing actual toys.

Ok, First off. I like this Mosaic. Good story great imagery, a well thought out idea, presented brilliantly.

And for all the people who are criticizing this work, here is why.

At what point do any of them congrat BB for killing? I don't see any clear indication of them doing so. What I do see is that they are proud of him for completing a mission or a battle.

Yes, clearly he took out a Seeker during that time and it is weighing heavily on him, but there is not one direct indication that their praise is for him killing.

When taken in that light, every single one of them is reacting completely within character.

Great job.

To Head Shot - If the Mosaics have been such a disappointment to you, why not write one yourself? Put your money where your pie hole is!

To Luns - excellent job on this. I love the use of figures and the story. I felt bad for Bumbles and loved the body language in the last frame. It drove home how upset he was. Great job!!!

I understood Prime's words to mean that Bumblebee was a true Autobot as he was suffering from these feelings of guilt, doubt and inner turmoil after taking a life, not simply because he took a life.

I thought Bumblebee's thoughts showed that he missed Prime's point after getting all the cheers from the other Autobots.

Great Mosaic! Keep them coming!

This is great. I love it. I want more. If I hated it I wouldn't have posted, at least not without offering something I considered better in it's place. Why slag something you could just disregard? For the sake of it? Insecure? Unimaginative? I made up my own stories when I played with TF's as a child and though I'm way past toy age now I still make up stories, it's fun. What's wrong with being creative? Mosaic is one of the coolest things I can be bothered with right now and whether I'm familiar with the continuity or not I appreciate the creativity and self-motivation for their own sake. Mosaic forever! Head Shots tend to damage the thinking.
Sorry to ramble.

Reminds me of G1 Marvel Bumblebee. Remember when he "runs away" early on in the comics. Very true to that character.

Sledge wrote:Before we begin, you're sadly entitled to your opinion, and even to express it. But I'm going to rip it to shreds because you don't seem to have put any thought into it.

Head Shot wrote:yet another crappy mosaic... am I the only one who really hates these things or am I just seriously that crazy? All they ever really seem to be is some poorly written fan-wank, and I have yet to see one that I actually like.

Well, sucks to be you. I can think of several so good that I've saved them to my hard drive so I can enjoy them again and again. Poorly-written? Let's see how you back that up.

First off, to one of the first posters saying that the writing is accurate.... yeah its accurate if we were talking about the shattered glass universe, but none of the autobots in my mind with the exception of a few like Ironhide ever glorified killing the 'cons. Beating them by stopping them from doing further harm to the planet and other living things was glorified, even beating the pulp out of them, but killing?

First of all, where do you see anyone praising BB for killing? They're complimenting him on a job well done. I doubt very much that the job BB was sent to do was killing what looks like Skywarp. Looks to me more like BB did his job and had to kill someone in the process.

Second, are you at all familiar with the characters? Let's look at who is complimenting him. Jazz: according to his profile, he "takes most dangerous missions," and he's a special ops agent. Doesn't sound like someone who'd shy away from killing.

Sunstreaker "is a very calm, competent, and ruthless war machine." Yeah, I'll bet he cries himself to sleep every time he has to kill a 'Con.

Sideswipe "relishes a fight to the finish with an opponent. Uses underhanded tactics when absolutely necessary." Why, this just doesn't seem to be supporting your point at all, does it? It's... it's almost like you were talking out of your rear end!

Do you all forget this was a children's cartoon and not some poorly written science fiction that glorifies robots killing eachother?

No. It's a series of toy robots that, over the years has spawned several cartoon shows, movies and comic books. And in every single one of them, characters have got killed. "Glorifies"? Did you actually read this? The whole frickin' point is about how terrible it is to kill someone, even an enemy! Jeez, people like you are the reason crap fiction gets made. Why bother putting some effort in when some numpty will come along, not pay attention then miss the point and blame the writer?

The autobots were never blood thirsty soldiers, and from the depiction of this, every autobot in this story, ESPECIALLY PRIME, are waaaaaay out of character.

Already covered this. You don't know those characters well. And, of course, I'll ask you to show me where Prime is saying "Way to go on slaughtering the enemy."

Absolutely trash writing whoever came up with the dialogue. Very good message in regards with Bumblebee's morality, and the deeper meaning behind the whole segment, but thats all defiled by the terrible dialogue and out of character personifactions of Jazz, Prime, and the others.

Again, try paying attention to what you're reading. Or just go back to watching the Matrix sequels.
So, what do I think? I like it. The characters are in character, which is something a lot of TF fanfic writers have trouble with.

Thanks for the compliments! But uh, I kinda was consiously writing them as congratulating Bee on the kill....

However, maybe subconsiously I wasn't, and it can work both ways. The way I see it(and have said on Devart and IDW) is that Bee is not a soldier, and isn't one of the "boys". In a lot of war media soldiers brag about how many kills they got during a battle, and they kind of look at Bee finally nailing a 'Con as a "job well done". They aren't necessarily wrong, they've just been entrenched in a millenia long struggle and have kind of "dehumanized" the enemy.

However, the main point stayed the same(Bee being grief stricken over taking a life), and I'm glad a majority of people seemed to have "got it".

To be honest, that still works. Bumblebee's a little guy. I'd congratulate him for taking down someone twice his size.

How poetic =D

I like the Teletran/Ark set. How did you make it?

how can you post your own mosaic? cuz i made a very awsome one

hippymule wrote:how can you post your own mosaic? cuz i made a very awsome one

Actually they just releaesed an FAQ today:

http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=5333&sid=526b8a27fcae8c905c1131e0af205c6f

Duke of Luns wrote:

Sledge wrote:Before we begin, you're sadly entitled to your opinion, and even to express it. But I'm going to rip it to shreds because you don't seem to have put any thought into it.

Head Shot wrote:yet another crappy mosaic... am I the only one who really hates these things or am I just seriously that crazy? All they ever really seem to be is some poorly written fan-wank, and I have yet to see one that I actually like.

Well, sucks to be you. I can think of several so good that I've saved them to my hard drive so I can enjoy them again and again. Poorly-written? Let's see how you back that up.

First off, to one of the first posters saying that the writing is accurate.... yeah its accurate if we were talking about the shattered glass universe, but none of the autobots in my mind with the exception of a few like Ironhide ever glorified killing the 'cons. Beating them by stopping them from doing further harm to the planet and other living things was glorified, even beating the pulp out of them, but killing?

First of all, where do you see anyone praising BB for killing? They're complimenting him on a job well done. I doubt very much that the job BB was sent to do was killing what looks like Skywarp. Looks to me more like BB did his job and had to kill someone in the process.

Second, are you at all familiar with the characters? Let's look at who is complimenting him. Jazz: according to his profile, he "takes most dangerous missions," and he's a special ops agent. Doesn't sound like someone who'd shy away from killing.

Sunstreaker "is a very calm, competent, and ruthless war machine." Yeah, I'll bet he cries himself to sleep every time he has to kill a 'Con.

Sideswipe "relishes a fight to the finish with an opponent. Uses underhanded tactics when absolutely necessary." Why, this just doesn't seem to be supporting your point at all, does it? It's... it's almost like you were talking out of your rear end!

Do you all forget this was a children's cartoon and not some poorly written science fiction that glorifies robots killing eachother?

No. It's a series of toy robots that, over the years has spawned several cartoon shows, movies and comic books. And in every single one of them, characters have got killed. "Glorifies"? Did you actually read this? The whole frickin' point is about how terrible it is to kill someone, even an enemy! Jeez, people like you are the reason crap fiction gets made. Why bother putting some effort in when some numpty will come along, not pay attention then miss the point and blame the writer?

The autobots were never blood thirsty soldiers, and from the depiction of this, every autobot in this story, ESPECIALLY PRIME, are waaaaaay out of character.

Already covered this. You don't know those characters well. And, of course, I'll ask you to show me where Prime is saying "Way to go on slaughtering the enemy."

Absolutely trash writing whoever came up with the dialogue. Very good message in regards with Bumblebee's morality, and the deeper meaning behind the whole segment, but thats all defiled by the terrible dialogue and out of character personifactions of Jazz, Prime, and the others.

Again, try paying attention to what you're reading. Or just go back to watching the Matrix sequels.
So, what do I think? I like it. The characters are in character, which is something a lot of TF fanfic writers have trouble with.

Thanks for the compliments! But uh, I kinda was consiously writing them as congratulating Bee on the kill....

However, maybe subconsiously I wasn't, and it can work both ways. The way I see it(and have said on Devart and IDW) is that Bee is not a soldier, and isn't one of the "boys". In a lot of war media soldiers brag about how many kills they got during a battle, and they kind of look at Bee finally nailing a 'Con as a "job well done". They aren't necessarily wrong, they've just been entrenched in a millenia long struggle and have kind of "dehumanized" the enemy.

However, the main point stayed the same(Bee being grief stricken over taking a life), and I'm glad a majority of people seemed to have "got it".

To follow up my some-what drunken tirade before, I liked the art style more than most mosaics, as only a handful have actually used figures themselves in the comics, and its not that bad of mosaic, there are plenty of ones that are much worse, I just didn't get the whole "congrats on killing a 'con thing" that seemed to be going on with all those characters, which I guess wasn't picked up on by the people attacking my original comment.

I apologize for being a bit too harsh in the original comment. I was under the influence slightly at the time, and exagerated negatively what I wanted to say.

However, to defend myself from the comments made in responses to my drunken tirade, I hated all 3 matrix movies, I won't write fanfic because 1. I'm not a writer, nor do I like to write stories unless I'm starting off from scratch (meaning no existing properties, in fear of horribly butchering them), 2. I know I would screw something up somewhere and make myself a hypocrit in regards to what I originally said. 3. I'm pretty mediocre at drawing unless its building blueprints or a bridge design (Civil engineer).

Also, yes Jazz, Sideswipe and sunstreaker are pretty tough fighters, they have to be to survive this on-going civil war with the decepticons. But the thing that seperates them from the decepticons is that they'd rather have peace, than to keep fighting a war that only makes the body count keep rising. And Jazz's job is espionage, not hitman, he's a spy. He gets information in the most angerous scenarios, because of the same reason people skydive, or bungee jump, for the adrenaline, not so he can kill as many cons as possible during a mission.

Sure they could be congratulating bumblebee on a job well done but the way I interpretted the mosaic (and the writer even admitted this) was they were congratulating him on the kill. Thats the only part I meant in regards to being out of character. If it wasn't for the war, do you think they'd still be congratulating him on the kill? No, they wouldn't, autobots aren't blood thirsty power mongers like a good portion of the decepticons are (Starscream, Megatron, Jhiaxus, etc).

Anyways, like I said above, I apologize for the harshness of my original comments, I was not entirely in the right state of mind, and really didn't mean half of that anyway. To those who responded to me, yes you have a right to be angry with me but don't start insulting my tastes, especially with whoever said that I'm the reason for crappy sequels like the matrix ones. I said it once and I'll say it again, all 3 matrix movies blew. The only thing that was good about them was what they had special effects-wise. However the plot, the characters, and everything else was just a convoluted and crappy reimagining of Plato's Alegory of the Cave.