Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[1984forever]

Gay ... straight ... whatever else ... does it really matter though?

Course it does.

This isn't a romance book. So why am I reading about robots in love?

IMO it's why people have walked. Idw have strayed too far from the core concept.

Agreed 100%. In the end IDW focused too much on romance and politics... it was boring, I had to drop all the titles. The TF comic fan base is still here. We’re not dead, we’re just not buying IDW’s trash anymore.

BTW, I had the pleasure of seeing G1 media giant Joe Bacal again recently. Unfortunately he’s not doing too well... Alzheimer’s.

[Dr. Caelus]

Gay ... straight ... whatever else ... does it really matter though?

Course it does.

This isn't a romance book.

I suppose I should aspire to becoming such a successful writer that I have people telling me what my book is about and complaining when it's not whatever they've decided it should be, but really, I feel like watching discussions like this would just make me want to tear out my own eyes.

[misfire19d]

Gay ... straight ... whatever else ... does it really matter though?

Course it does.

This isn't a romance book.

I suppose I should aspire to becoming such a successful writer that I have people telling me what my book is about and complaining when it's not whatever they've decided it should be, but really, I feel like watching discussions like this would just make me want to tear out my own eyes.

But then you'll miss the epic conclusion of Robots In Love!

[ZeroWolf]

Gay ... straight ... whatever else ... does it really matter though?

Course it does.

This isn't a romance book.

I suppose I should aspire to becoming such a successful writer that I have people telling me what my book is about and complaining when it's not whatever they've decided it should be, but really, I feel like watching discussions like this would just make me want to tear out my own eyes.

It's okay I feel the same sometimes, especially as an aspiring writer myself. I mean I didn't realise that all this time I've been reading a romance and political comic...

To all those saying about the romance elements: I've never found the relationships that over powering myself but maybe they seemed it because you thought other elements were missing.

[partholon]

Gay ... straight ... whatever else ... does it really matter though?

Course it does.

This isn't a romance book.

I suppose I should aspire to becoming such a successful writer that I have people telling me what my book is about and complaining when it's not whatever they've decided it should be, but really, I feel like watching discussions like this would just make me want to tear out my own eyes.

what you do in YOUR book is no ones business but yourself. by all means go pitch a book to image and run with it.

but when you write someone elses property you go by their rules, and when their already existing readership walks away in droves from your stories?

well you wont be writing that companies book for much longer.

thread reading or not.

[ZeroWolf]

To be fair, as long as their toys got advertised I don't think hasbro really cared what story was going on. If hasbro had found the romance problematic they would have stepped in like every time they stepped in when they had toys they wanted featuring. Ultimately it's us fans that either have problems or don't. I'd imagine a lot of readers would turn their nose up at the tf comics just because it was tf, so they couldn't care less about reboots or who was writing what. When this happens it's a clash of opinions based on our views. There are no facts that say the comic is good or bad, after all people may not get the comic if the comic shop they get it from stop ordering it in (this happened to me) some might also stop reading because they have to drop their spending for what ever reason. So sales can not be a fact for if something is quality or not.

[Randomhero]

To be fair, as long as their toys got advertised I don't think hasbro really cared what story was going on. If hasbro had found the romance problematic they would have stepped in like every time they stepped in when they had toys they wanted featuring. Ultimately it's us fans that either have problems or don't. I'd imagine a lot of readers would turn their nose up at the tf comics just because it was tf, so they couldn't care less about reboots or who was writing what. When this happens it's a clash of opinions based on our views. There are no facts that say the comic is good or bad, after all people may not get the comic if the comic shop they get it from stop ordering it in (this happened to me) some might also stop reading because they have to drop their spending for what ever reason. So sales can not be a fact for if something is quality or not.

Oh they do. Trust me they do.

In All Hail Megatron, kup was suppose to be the traitor that sold out the Autobots instead of Sunstreaker. Hasbro said no.

All Hail Megatron again, scourge was suppose to show up and be portrayed as an old Decepticon and challenge Megatrons leadership. There’s even a line from Stracream in issue 6 I believe that mentions scourge when stracream brings up “someone will challange you”

2010 ongoing, bumblebee was who Costa wanted to kill off instead of Ironhide. Hasbro said nope.

Last stand of the wreckers, Springer, kup and preceptor was suppose to die and hasbro turned it.


They do actually have say in the comics and there is someone who reads all the scripts and approves them.

[Dr. Caelus]

what you do in YOUR book is no ones business but yourself. by all means go pitch a book to image and run with it.

but when you write someone elses property you go by their rules, and when their already existing readership walks away in droves from your stories?

well you wont be writing that companies book for much longer.

You know, I might understand if it was Budiansky or Furman, or Hasbro itself, complaining about how the characters and plot-lines they created/developed have been handled since then, but I really doubt you're any one of the three.

You're a (former?) reader, who seems to believe s/he's the authority on what the books are about - regardless of their actual content - and are deriding the writer's for not writing what you would write. There's a fair bit of genuine criticism in this thread, but what you're doing is comparable to down-rating a Mexican restaurant because you went there wanting Thai food.

You don't like subplots about emotionally intimate interpersonal relationships? Fine; then go read something written for a younger age group with simpler narratives, but don't condemn a writer for working in a genre you don't like.

[partholon]

and there you have it.

the "sod off and read something else" response from the SJW brigade.

to bring you up to speed, ive been a fan of the comic books going back to issue 52 of the UK comic book.

ive followed it through every iteration thats followed since and i bougt IDW up to issue 6 of Optimus prime - which i dropped cause i just couldnt support them any more.

i bought the last vol (2) of OP and both trades of LOST LIGHT.

im NOT buying them anymore as the decrease in quality is shocking.

so currently im up to speed reading both titles from scans on line in the VAIN hope itll change.

i know what im talking about on this subject heres a hint mate, no writer - anywhere- is immune from criticism , so maybe pandering to you is why these books are dying.

in which case go read a slashfic on tumblr and let the rest of us get our sci/fi epic back.

[ZeroWolf]

To be fair, as long as their toys got advertised I don't think hasbro really cared what story was going on. If hasbro had found the romance problematic they would have stepped in like every time they stepped in when they had toys they wanted featuring. Ultimately it's us fans that either have problems or don't. I'd imagine a lot of readers would turn their nose up at the tf comics just because it was tf, so they couldn't care less about reboots or who was writing what. When this happens it's a clash of opinions based on our views. There are no facts that say the comic is good or bad, after all people may not get the comic if the comic shop they get it from stop ordering it in (this happened to me) some might also stop reading because they have to drop their spending for what ever reason. So sales can not be a fact for if something is quality or not.

Oh they do. Trust me they do.

In All Hail Megatron, kup was suppose to be the traitor that sold out the Autobots instead of Sunstreaker. Hasbro said no.

All Hail Megatron again, scourge was suppose to show up and be portrayed as an old Decepticon and challenge Megatrons leadership. There’s even a line from Stracream in issue 6 I believe that mentions scourge when stracream brings up “someone will challange you”

2010 ongoing, bumblebee was who Costa wanted to kill off instead of Ironhide. Hasbro said nope.

Last stand of the wreckers, Springer, kup and preceptor was suppose to die and hasbro turned it.


They do actually have say in the comics and there is someone who reads all the scripts and approves them.

First off, someone at idw really has it in for Kup (and finally got their wish)

Secondly, thanks for the info doesn't this prove then that hasbro are fine with things like chromedome and rewind?

[Randomhero]

To be fair, as long as their toys got advertised I don't think hasbro really cared what story was going on. If hasbro had found the romance problematic they would have stepped in like every time they stepped in when they had toys they wanted featuring. Ultimately it's us fans that either have problems or don't. I'd imagine a lot of readers would turn their nose up at the tf comics just because it was tf, so they couldn't care less about reboots or who was writing what. When this happens it's a clash of opinions based on our views. There are no facts that say the comic is good or bad, after all people may not get the comic if the comic shop they get it from stop ordering it in (this happened to me) some might also stop reading because they have to drop their spending for what ever reason. So sales can not be a fact for if something is quality or not.

Oh they do. Trust me they do.

In All Hail Megatron, kup was suppose to be the traitor that sold out the Autobots instead of Sunstreaker. Hasbro said no.

All Hail Megatron again, scourge was suppose to show up and be portrayed as an old Decepticon and challenge Megatrons leadership. There’s even a line from Stracream in issue 6 I believe that mentions scourge when stracream brings up “someone will challange you”

2010 ongoing, bumblebee was who Costa wanted to kill off instead of Ironhide. Hasbro said nope.

Last stand of the wreckers, Springer, kup and preceptor was suppose to die and hasbro turned it.


They do actually have say in the comics and there is someone who reads all the scripts and approves them.

First off, someone at idw really has it in for Kup (and finally got their wish)

Secondly, thanks for the info doesn't this prove then that hasbro are fine with things like chromedome and rewind?

They embraced it. Roberts talked about it in an interview questioning if that’s gonna be okay and hasbro said “yes! Do that!”

[Galactic Prime]

You do realize that sex does not have to be had for them to be homosexual right?

That would be the case if they were human beings, but this isn't two people who've agreed to abstinence, this is two individuals in a race that has largely appropriated the concept of GENDER from other cultures, and does not have the concept of SEX at all.

"Same sex" relationships entail SEX. Not GENDER.

Both pairs of characters are male, that's a fact dude.

Their gender is male, not their sex, because they don't have the concept of SEX.

I read the whole thing, it was as gay as any other homosexual couple I know in real life.

Except for that non-trivial part about neither of them having a sex, let alone the same sex.

That an emotionally intimate, nonsexual relationship between two asexual entities stirs so much discomfort and protest simply because the characters have the same, subjective, self-defined gender says a lot about the people who complain incessantly about it.

Hell Chromedome and Rewind went so far as to be "paired" in a very marriage style relationship.

My wife and I also got 'paired' in a very marriage style relationship. That doesn't make us gay.

It could I suppose, but those arguing they aren't male would be wrong.

I didn't argue that they aren't male. Their gender is clearly intended to be masculine. I argued that they don't have SEX which is sort of central to the definition of "same SEX relationship".

You are so incredibly wrong it isn't even funny. Plenty of people have relationships without sex, both straight and gay. Sex and gender are two completely different things.

Cyclonus, Tailgate, Chromedome, and Rewind are Male Gender and they are in relationships.

[Dr. Caelus]

You are so incredibly wrong it isn't even funny. Plenty of people have relationships without sex, both straight and gay.

But human beings who abstain from sex, even asexual people, still exist in a culture where sex is a thing, and the cultural significance of sex shapes the meaning of romantic relationships - even celibate relationships, or relationships with limited rules for intercourse. That is not true for aliens with no analogue to sex or sexuality.

When a person looks at two Transformers with the same gender holding hands and freak out over 'all the homosexuality', the transgender 'agenda', etc., and whines about it being forced down their throats and complains about the impact it's having on children, it's even more absurd than in the context of human beings, because there's no sexual component to it.

The angst spewed out by homophobic readers over two dudes holding hands is all the more remarkable because - even by the standards of their own bigoted proscriptions against human men having sexual intercourse with one another - the characters have done nothing 'offensive'.

Sex and gender are two completely different things.

Yes, exactly!

[Galactic Prime]

and there you have it.

the "sod off and read something else" response from the SJW brigade.

to bring you up to speed, ive been a fan of the comic books going back to issue 52 of the UK comic book.

ive followed it through every iteration thats followed since and i bougt IDW up to issue 6 of Optimus prime - which i dropped cause i just couldnt support them any more.

i bought the last vol (2) of OP and both trades of LOST LIGHT.

im NOT buying them anymore as the decrease in quality is shocking.

so currently im up to speed reading both titles from scans on line in the VAIN hope itll change.

i know what im talking about on this subject heres a hint mate, no writer - anywhere- is immune from criticism , so maybe pandering to you is why these books are dying.

in which case go read a slashfic on tumblr and let the rest of us get our sci/fi epic back.

Well said, too bad we can't just drop these SJW's off the edge of the flat Earth they probably believe in.

[Galactic Prime]

You are so incredibly wrong it isn't even funny. Plenty of people have relationships without sex, both straight and gay.

But human beings who abstain from sex, even asexual people, still exist in a culture where sex is a thing, and the cultural significance of sex shapes the meaning of romantic relationships - even celibate relationships, or relationships with limited rules for intercourse. That is not true for aliens with no analogue to sex or sexuality.

When a person looks at two Transformers with the same gender holding hands and freak out over 'all the homosexuality', the transgender 'agenda', etc., and whines about it being forced down their throats and complains about the impact it's having on children, it's even more absurd than in the context of human beings, because there's no sexual component to it.

The angst spewed out by homophobic readers over two dudes holding hands is all the more remarkable because - even by the standards of their own bigoted proscriptions against human men having sexual intercourse with one another - the characters have done nothing 'offensive'.

Sex and gender are two completely different things.

Yes, exactly!

I'm done talking to you, it's like talking to a wall. You're wrong, end of story.

[Dr. Caelus]

and there you have it.

the "sod off and read something else" response from the SJW brigade... in which case go read a slashfic on tumblr and let the rest of us get our sci/fi epic back.

So you're upset because I suggested you not continue reading something you dislike, and your response is that I should read something that's not the thing you dislike, so that the writers of the book you dislike will stop writing things I like that you dislike... And all of that convoluted reasoning is topped with thick layers of territoriality, entitlement, and imagined unanimity with other readers.

know what im talking about on this subject heres a hint mate, no writer - anywhere- is immune from criticism

What you're doing isn't "criticism" for the most part, it's vapid shallow ranting that has little to do with the quality of the story-telling, and is largely based on your personal dislikes and your belief that the mere presence of feminine characters in a story introduces feminist themes (god forbid) that somehow 'dominate' the plot.

so maybe pandering to you is why these books are dying.

Or maybe not pandering to you is the reason they've been far more successful in terms of longevity than literally any other Transformers series.

[ZeroWolf]

and there you have it.

the "sod off and read something else" response from the SJW brigade.

to bring you up to speed, ive been a fan of the comic books going back to issue 52 of the UK comic book.

ive followed it through every iteration thats followed since and i bougt IDW up to issue 6 of Optimus prime - which i dropped cause i just couldnt support them any more.

i bought the last vol (2) of OP and both trades of LOST LIGHT.

im NOT buying them anymore as the decrease in quality is shocking.

so currently im up to speed reading both titles from scans on line in the VAIN hope itll change.

i know what im talking about on this subject heres a hint mate, no writer - anywhere- is immune from criticism , so maybe pandering to you is why these books are dying.

in which case go read a slashfic on tumblr and let the rest of us get our sci/fi epic back.

Well said, too bad we can't just drop these SJW's off the edge of the flat Earth they probably believe in.

Actually people believing in a flat earth tend to be on the right wing side of the fence, while sjw tend to be more left wing. Also while there is no doubt the more extreme representive of sjw (though what this term encompasses now is a bit harder to pin down and might as well be redefined as "someone I disagree with") their heart is in the right place by wanting us to be, essentially, nicer to each other and treat each other more fairly.

[Galactic Prime]

and there you have it.

the "sod off and read something else" response from the SJW brigade.

to bring you up to speed, ive been a fan of the comic books going back to issue 52 of the UK comic book.

ive followed it through every iteration thats followed since and i bougt IDW up to issue 6 of Optimus prime - which i dropped cause i just couldnt support them any more.

i bought the last vol (2) of OP and both trades of LOST LIGHT.

im NOT buying them anymore as the decrease in quality is shocking.

so currently im up to speed reading both titles from scans on line in the VAIN hope itll change.

i know what im talking about on this subject heres a hint mate, no writer - anywhere- is immune from criticism , so maybe pandering to you is why these books are dying.

in which case go read a slashfic on tumblr and let the rest of us get our sci/fi epic back.

Well said, too bad we can't just drop these SJW's off the edge of the flat Earth they probably believe in.

Actually people believing in a flat earth tend to be on the right wing side of the fence, while sjw tend to be more left wing. Also while there is no doubt the more extreme representive of sjw (though what this term encompasses now is a bit harder to pin down and might as well be redefined as "someone I disagree with") their heart is in the right place by wanting us to be, essentially, nicer to each other and treat each other more fairly.

Actually, people who tend to believe in a Flat Earth are not more right leaning, stupidity isn't exclusive to right or left leaning people.

[Dr. Caelus]

Actually people believing in a flat earth tend to be on the right wing side of the fence, while sjw tend to be more left wing. Also while there is no doubt the more extreme representive of sjw (though what this term encompasses now is a bit harder to pin down and might as well be redefined as "someone I disagree with") their heart is in the right place by wanting us to be, essentially, nicer to each other and treat each other more fairly.

Actually, people who tend to believe in a Flat Earth are not more right leaning, stupidity isn't exclusive to right or left leaning people.

Actually, I don't endorse FET, so as I seem to be the butt of the insult, the basic premise is trivial. Now, do you really want to get into an argument about relative intellect or do you want to keep this civil?

[Galactic Prime]

Actually people believing in a flat earth tend to be on the right wing side of the fence, while sjw tend to be more left wing. Also while there is no doubt the more extreme representive of sjw (though what this term encompasses now is a bit harder to pin down and might as well be redefined as "someone I disagree with") their heart is in the right place by wanting us to be, essentially, nicer to each other and treat each other more fairly.

Actually, people who tend to believe in a Flat Earth are not more right leaning, stupidity isn't exclusive to right or left leaning people.

Actually, I don't endorse FET, so as I seem to be the butt of the insult, the basic premise is trivial. Now, do you really want to get into an argument about relative intellect or do you want to keep this civil?

I wasn't referring to you, either directly or indirectly. I was making a comment on SJW's and Flat Earther's being one and the same. I don't know where you think you get your name being referenced seeing as how the last time I posted to you I told you I was done speaking with you. You can rest assured that NONE of my comments (this one aside) are directed at you, you aren't worth conversing with.

[Dr. Caelus]

I wasn't referring to you, either directly or indirectly. I was making a comment on SJW's and Flat Earther's being one and the same. I don't know where you think you get your name being referenced seeing as how the last time I posted to you I told you I was done speaking with you.

You quoted Partholon's response to me, said you agreed, and wished that you could kill off all of the SJWs. It wasn't a difficult exchange to follow.

Though, nothing I said should have been difficult to follow either, yet I ended up investing multiple posts explaining my point to you, while you vacantly replied back with what was essentially the same condescending response over-and-over before saying that talking to me was like talking to a wall.

EDIT: Ohh, I get it, you're going by playground rules - social ostracism by virtue of role playing a scenario in which the person you dislike is regarded as 'dead', and then continuing to insult or otherwise demean him in front of him, then pretending your comments don't pertain to him. How... nostalgic... of you. Well, I better go get my cooties shot before the passive-aggressive hostility escalates to imaginary biological warfare.

[Sigma Magnus]

...honestly, I'm glad they're using Unicron to end the continuity. I feel like Unicron should be used only as a final boss sort of thing, otherwise it kinda cheapens him.

As for the new universe, I hope some of the concepts from this one bleed into it (and the rest of the franchise overall), as well as some of the unique characterizations for lesser-used characters.

[Burn]

Holy crap guys ... I know I'm at fault for contributing to it but we need to get back on topic.

Thanks to Sigma Magnus for doing so!

[Dr. Caelus]

Holy crap guys ... I know I'm at fault for contributing to it but we need to get back on topic.

Thanks to Sigma Magnus for doing so!

I settled the rest of my venting on my book blog (good for page views), so I'm done.

[ZeroWolf]

...honestly, I'm glad they're using Unicron to end the continuity. I feel like Unicron should be used only as a final boss sort of this, otherwise it sorta cheapens him.

As for the new universe, I hope some of the concepts from this one bleed into it (and the rest of the franchise overall), as well as some of the unique characterizations for lesser-used characters.

This is what I hope as well.

@Galactic Prime I don't know how many flat earthers you've had the pleasure of meeting but all the one's I've encountered are very much right wing. Also wanting a group of people dead you don't like is a bad way of approaching things. Despite their methods, the majority of "sjw" have their hearts in the right place. Their appearance is a push back against trolls, hatred breeds hatred as they say.